Latest News

McGill, News

Schulich library to close for two years

The Schulich Library of Physical Sciences, Life Sciences, and Engineering will be temporarily closed for two years to undergo renovations. According to Diane Koen, senior director of Planning and Resources of the McGill Library services, the closure will tentatively come into effect on May 15, 2019. Renovations to the Schulich library will address the serious structural issues which were discovered during the Macdonald-Stewart Library Building roof renovation in 2010.

For about the last four years, we have these temporary internal walls put up, and windows are covered because they had to do this intervention [. . .] to make sure both inside and outside the walls were stabilized.” Koen said.

In addition to repairing and stabilizing the masonry of the building, McGill will also take the opportunity to install new heating, ventilation, and air conditioning (HVAC) systems, add more group-study rooms for reserve by students, and increase the number of washrooms on every floor. Currently, McGill is working with EVOQ Architecture to finalize the design plans.

This is a 19th-century building, let’s make it into a 21st-century library, [and] within the budget that is available to us,” Koen said.

McGill Library Services Communications Officer Merika Ramundo referred to feedback gathered through LibQual surveys, conducted to assess library users’ satisfaction, as one of the reasons motivating the additional renovations.

In a lot of the comments we received […], we have gotten ‘it is too hot in Schulich,’” Ramundo said. “That’s a bit of a red flag in terms of the HVAC issues, so that is for sure one of the things being addressed.”

Out of the project’s total budget of $38 million, $26 million come from a Quebec government grant, and McGill’s deferred maintenance budget will supplement the remaining $12 million. The Students’ Society of McGill University (SSMU) Library Improvement Fund Committee (LIFC) also made a contribution of $75,000 to support the improvement of the washrooms and inclusion of gender-neutral options.

The LIF decided to partially fund the project because it fulfilled an urgent and well-known student need within the McGill community: More washrooms of better quality in Schulich,” Library Improvement Fund Commissioner Marie Lemieux wrote in an email to The McGill Tribune.

The resources at Schulich, which, according to a census conducted by McGill Library Services on Nov. 19, sees roughly 3,500 visitors a day, will have to be relocated for the duration of the renovations. The library’s 20 staff members, 160,000 print volumes, and at least 675 of its 850 seats will be moved to the McLennan-Redpath Library complex where they will remain available for staff and students. In order to provide more seating at McLennan-Redpath, McGill Library Services will relocate 75 staff members on the second floor of Redpath to 550 Sherbrooke.

We feel we can get 675 to 700 seats in [Redpath] and the only way we can do this is to move our Collection Services staff and Digital Initiative staff off-site,” Koen said. “The floor that they are on has 20 offices which will become group study rooms.”

Furthermore, 250,000 low-use print volumes, most of them available online, will be moved from the Redpath basement to a storage facility off-site.

By moving these low use materials to storage off-site, we are freeing up space to house active collections such as the Schulich Collection and other low-use collections from various areas of the McLennan-Redpath Complex,” Koen said.

The selection of material moving to the Redpath basement is not yet final, but will likely come from the Blackader-Lauterman and McLennan collections. Material moved to the Redpath basement will continue to remain available.

We are moving heaven and earth so that [users] can have access to their collections, quality space, librarians, and support staff that served them for years in Schulich,” Koen said. “I know it is an imposition, but we are doing everything we can do to make sure their experience is a good one.”

Opinion

Campus Conversation: Change the Name as seen by alumni

The Change the Name campaign has gripped students on campus this semester, but it’s also of interest to other members of the McGill community. The McGill Tribune asked alumni for their stance on the men’s varsity teams’ name.

John Macdonald (BA ‘01, BEd ‘03)

The naming debate is very important to me. Figuratively speaking, I have a foot in each canoe. I played football for McGill from 1997 to 2001, but I am also a proud Mohawk from Six Nations of the Grand River Territory and a former indigenous education consultant.

For a long time, I had mixed feelings about the name ‘Redmen.’ I saw the potential for offence due to its archaic, pan-Indian connotation, but I also found it enchanting that it reflected my mixed Scottish and Mohawk heritage. I never loved the name, but I also chose to remain silent because I believed the damage it inflicted was miniscule. As it turns out, I was wrong.

Recently, through Tomas Jirousek’s campaign and Dr. Suzanne Morton’s research, I learned about the racialized acts of students during the ‘50s and ‘60s, such as the use of ‘super-squaws’ to describe women’s teams. The appalling use of this misogynistic and racist language on campus is a cancer of our history, and it metastasized from the name ‘Redmen.’ Removing this remnant from a dark period of McGill’s past would be a step toward reconciliation.

The elitist, self-serving, and Eurocentric banter of those who believe that the name should remain is heartbreaking. It takes an enormous lack of sensitivity to so easily dismiss the viewpoints of over 10,000 indigenous and non-indigenous community members. Equally bothersome is the rationale that because some indigenous communities and alumni use or endorse the name ‘Redmen’ and other similar names for sports teams, McGill has the inherent right to use it as well. It is universally understood that only marginalized peoples can reclaim words and names that have been used to denigrate them in the past. Finally, the fact remains that most dictionaries fully acknowledge that the word “Redmen’ is a dated, offensive term used to refer to a North American Indian. To continue to promote this word in media is not appropriate for a forward-thinking and innovative institution such as McGill..

As an Ongwehonwe person and a proud McGillian, I must say that it is time for ‘Redmen’ to fade into history. Instead, let’s move forward by collaborating to create a new name that we can all be proud of.

Salim Brahimi (BEng ‘89, MEng ‘08, PhD ‘18)

The Redmen alumni community respectfully disagrees with those calling for the Redmen name to be changed. This in no way implies that we are insensitive to the historical injustices faced by Canada’s First Nations: We are all on the same side. As alumni, we share the Working Group on Principles of Commemoration and Renaming’s commitment to taking concrete steps that will ensure that our campus is more inclusive of and welcoming to indigenous peoples.

There is no question that red is the official school colour, as reflected in the McGill coat of arms. Over McGill’s 140-year history of intercollegiate sports, the colour red has been both universal and predominant.
What has complicated the debate is that, decades ago, erroneous links were made with aboriginal connotations, including a stylized headdress logo. More than a quarter-century ago, the McGill Athletics Board corrected the error once and for all by removing the logos and any indigenous references associated with the name. The name Redmen was retained because its historical roots were neither associated with nor in reference to the indigenous community. It was intended to mean “Men in Red”— and that is exactly what it means today.
I fully understand that some members of the indigenous community take offence to the name. However, this perception is not universal, as Redmen alumni with indigenous roots have expressed their pride in the Redmen name and opposed changing it. Other indigenous leaders have expressed that they are not offended by the name.
To us, ‘Redmen’ represents family. Redmen team members share a bond through the decades of perseverance, sacrifice, camaraderie, friendship that are integral to the McGill experience. If the name is changed because it is mistakenly perceived as having a pejorative connotation, that would be wrong, because it would falsely paint the Redmen alumni who support keeping the name as racist. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
It is my sincere hope that the University will permit both sides to explain their position, and that the entire McGill community will seize this opportunity to turn a potentially divisive topic into a unifying, inclusive initiative and to take concrete action called for by the by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada.

Creative, News

McGill Tribune Monthly News Recap | November 2018

“Last month SSMU got sued, the Social Work Student’s Association demanded to be paid for their work, and the Children of the Corn were left standing in a field”.

Check out our monthly news recap for November 2018.

Creative

What is the best grilled cheese on campus?

The Tribune makes their most important inquiry to date: What is the best grilled cheese on campus? Is it the Burnside’s greasy delight, or the more refined New Rez-ian approach?

Watch the Tribune both ask, and answer, these profound and elusive questions.

Creative

How McGill is failing its disabled students

“We have a fundamental right to be different, and that’s the first thing that students with disabilities must recognize.”

In October 2018, Didier Chelin, a blind former McGill Law student filed a human rights complaint against McGill University.

This is what he has to say about how the university is failing its disabled students. Created by Tristan Surman and Bilal Virji.

News, Opinion, PGSS

Post-Graduate Student Society (PGSS) Executive Midterm Reviews

Helena Zakrzewski, Secretary-General

Zakrzewski ran on a platform of improving mental health services for graduate students, increasing support for international students, and re-engaging society members. Over the past semester, she has overseen and supported the initiatives of other PGSS councillors while undertaking an extensive evaluation of PGSS governance bodies. Zakrzewski initiated and secured funding for a comprehensive third-party audit of PGSS governance structures to be conducted in the new year, and worked to overhaul the PGSS Appointments Board and International Student Caucus administrative processes. She has also initiated projects for PGSS member engagement and mental health services. As Secretary-General, Zakrzewski has refocused her efforts into enacting governance reforms that have the potential to leave a lasting positive impact on PGSS.

Sibat Anam, Financial Affairs Officer

Anam has navigated PGSS’s financial systems to respond to post-graduate students’ needs for funding and services. Most significantly, he has worked with the Committee on Monetary Affairs to improve the Grants Program, raising the maximum amount of funding available by 50 per cent and providing applicants with more information on the process. Non-unionized post-doctorate students will also benefit; previously, their Student Life Fund student fees were left unused because they were not represented by a Post-Graduate Student Association (PGSA). Anam allocated these funds to the Experimental Medicine Graduate Student Society, which will in turn hold more inclusive events for all post-doctorate students. Moving forwards, Anam intends to propose amendments to the Society Activities Manual later this month, fulfilling his campaign promise to increase funding for student travel. He is also preparing for the upcoming Health and Dental Fee referendum to be held during Winter 2019.

 

Hocine Slimani, External Affairs Officer

In his second term as External Affairs Officer (EAO), Slimani has focused on advocating for graduate students’ interests at the provincial and federal level. Slimani attended Quebec Student Union (QSU) caucuses in June and August 2018 and felt that the Society’s desire to make public data more available for research purposes was fairly represented. However, PGSS’s lack of membership to a provincial student union has posed a significant barrier to completing Slimani’s key campaign promises. At the onset of both of his terms, Slimani pointed to the benefits of considering postdoctoral students as employees but has been unable to make progress in lobbying the provincial government on the issue. Moreover, Slimani has failed to put affiliation to a student union like QSU to referendum this semester as he had promised to do during his campaign. Slimani’s partnership with the Students’ Union of McGill University (SSMU) and the Milton-Parc community to investigate affordable housing options near campus has completed its first phase, however, the project’s progress is slow and inconclusive.

 

Konstantina Chalastara, Internal Affairs Officer

Having previously held the position of PGSS Environment Commissioner, making events more environmentally friendly was a priority for Chalastara. Chalastara has been steadily working toward this goal since the beginning of the semester: PGSS Orientation Week received a gold certification from the McGill Office of Sustainability. In the first month of the semester Chalastra organized an impressive 26 events on top of Orientation Week, all of which were well-attended. In November, Chalastara planned Eco-Week, which ran Nov. 12-25 and featured a variety of panels and workshops. Chalastara has also been working to make social events more accessible by implementing family friendly events and improving social media engagement. For Winter 2019 she hopes to improve the Winter Orientation for students starting at McGill in January.

 

Maria Tippler, Academic Affairs Officer

Tipler organized her platform around the theme of synergistic projects and initiatives that increase involvement with other PGSS executives, commissioners, and stakeholders. She has achieved her goal of improved communication, and, among other accomplishments, has provided students with guidance on working with professors in an Oct. 26 panel, strengthened PGSS transparency by documenting a paper trail for the Library Improvement Fund, and clarified committee application procedures. Currently, Tippler is working on creating a streamlined document to promote funding opportunities for students, updating the PGSS website, and planning for the Ottawa Networking Trip in January. Given Tippler’s commitment to transparency and her history of both fulfilling and exceeding campaign plans, her ability to continue to deliver on ongoing projects is promising.

 

Jeremy Goh, Member Services Officer

Goh has sought to make PGSS more accessible and inclusive by creating programs that can remain in place after his term concludes. He has revamped the Study Sundays program by creating more spots and hiring a core group of paid student babysitters. In collaboration with PGSS’ equity commissioner, Goh passed a motion in support of the #ChangeTheName campaign, uniting an often-detached PGSS with the rest of McGill. He also administered a special referendum regarding the Student Services fee for non-unionized post-doctoral students. Currently, he is building a structural support system for students starting families and is also preparing for the Winter 2019 Health and Dental Fee referendum. Next semester, Goh hopes to work more closely with his constituents and set up a formal feedback platform for PGSS services.

Features

Beyond sobs and scares

Days prior to returning to Montreal this August, I visited my father’s grave for the first time in nearly a decade, 17 years after he died. As a child in visits past, I had trudged along with my mother and sister, longing to return to the car. This time, though, I looked forward to going on my own. I had reached year three of flying back and forth from Kansas to Quebec—back and forth from two starkly different lifestyles and friend groups—in four-month intervals. With graduation quietly approaching, my life was moving more quickly than ever. Crossing into Missouri on my way to Mount Moriah Cemetery, I was looking to take a step back and reset.

Commentary, Opinion

On activism and Jewish identity

On Dec. 3, I participated in a demonstration as part of IfNotNow Montreal (INN). The rally consisted of a small group of Jewish activists, most of them McGill students, who held posters displaying statistics about the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza. INN is a Jewish organization that advocates to end North American Jewish support for the occupation. I grew up in a community where I was encouraged to think critically about Israel and my relation to it as a well-assimilated North American Jew, and I have continued to do so upon entering university. However, when I first expressed an opinion on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in public, I realized that my Jewish identity is far more intertwined with the existence of the State of Israel than I had previously believed.

Educational institutions have immense power over our political beliefs. From a young age, people absorb implicit values that influence their thought process for life. My education was mostly secular, aside from Jewish preschool, a socially-progressive Jewish summer camp, and rather benign Sunday morning classes at my synagogue. Somewhere along the road, I acquired an allegiance with Israel that I did not realize was intrinsic to my identity until I took a public stance against the occupation.

For some Jewish students, education promotes a specific viewpoint on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The legitimate message that Israel provides support for the Jewish people when they are targets of discrimination is coupled with an expectation that one must reciprocate this support to truly be Jewish. In private Jewish high schools especially, many educators politicize the pre-existing affinity for Israel among the student body. Peers link social belonging with unconditional support for Israel. This is the case to varying degrees among many Jewish institutions.

University upends Jewish students’ preconceived beliefs and exposes them to a complicated discourse rife with one-sided, divisive rhetoric. Groups like Chabad at McGill, StandWithUs, and Israel on Campus assert that university discourages Jewish pride and support for Israel. I have not been at McGill long enough to take a position on campus anti-Semitism. I have noticed, however, that most Jewish organizations at McGill are supportive of Israel, and quiet about the complexities of its political reality.

Organizations such as Jewish Voice for Peace, Independent Jewish Voices, and, more recently, IfNotNow, provide the primary outlets for Jewish students’ criticism of Israel on university campuses. However, many of these organizations require that students totally support the principles of the Boycott, Divest, and Sanction movement (BDS) movement. This absolutist position equates support for Israel on any level with tolerance for the occupation. Conflicted students should be open to challenging their perceptions about the occupation while also reflecting on their philosophy about the wider Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Every aspect of the issue is rooted in an identity that associates Israel with Jewish belonging and vice versa.

On campus, Jewish organizations and left-wing activist groups place progressive, Jewish students at a crossroads. Ingrained identity forged through childhood is confronted with idealist activism that demands a firmly-planted position on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. There is no such thing as a non-controversial statement about Israel. With Jewish identity on the line, one feels a need to be confident, supported by facts, and willing to face criticism to make a statement about Israel. Ultimately, leftist Jewish students must strive to communicate their opinions despite the complexities of their situation. 

Commentary, Opinion

The committee on teaching staff-student relationships has failed students

The Ad Hoc Senate Committee for Teaching Staff-Student Relationships was created to respond to widespread student concerns over how McGill deals with abuses of power in the wake of last year’s winter semester walk-out. The committee was tasked with making non-binding recommendations to Senate which would address McGill’s obligations vis-à-vis intimate relationships between teaching staff and students. On Dec. 5, the committee will present its findings to McGill Senate. However, as the student representatives on the committee, we feel that the final report does not satisfy student frustrations.

Through consultations, including written feedback and a student town hall, we saw overwhelming student support for the prohibition of relationships between students and professors. Though this support was particularly salient at the undergraduate level, it was echoed by community members at all levels of the university. In most cases the request included exemptions for situations such as those involving a relationship formed prior to the assumption of teaching duties. The majority of Committee members—including all of the student representatives—strongly agreed with the suggested ban on teaching staff-student relationships.However, the final report does not reflect this. Rather, it recommends a prohibition of relationships within academic units, with various avenues for exemption. The report includes two major loopholes:

Category 1: The teaching staff has no supervisory/evaluative/teaching role over the student AND The relationship will not create the reality or perception of any unfair advantage or disadvantage to the student concerned or to other students in the unit AND The relationship will not place an undue burden on other faculty members within the unit who are obliged to make accommodations for their colleague.

Category 2: The relationship existed prior to both parties participating in the same academic unit AND each element of the category 1 exemption applies.

The fact that the final report ignores student demands for a ban is unacceptable. Teaching staff hold a form of power over students regardless of whether they have supervisory or evaluative responsibilities toward the student. Framing the need to ban student-teaching staff relationships as a matter of conflict of interest completely negates the power dynamic that is inherent to these relationships and puts student safety at risk.

Furthermore, the report defines an ‘academic unit’ as “an administrative unit in which an academic program is delivered at an undergraduate, graduate, or postgraduate level.” This means that a small faculty could be considered a singular unit, or a large department could be considered multiple units. In short, intimate teaching staff-student relationships could plausibly be permissible in larger departments with several streams, such as English or International Development Studies.

Most importantly, the report does not adequately address the consequences a professor may face when in violation of the policy, including, but not limited to, tenure policy. At present, applicants compile their own tenure dossiers, and are not mandated to include information on disciplinary sanctions. Furthermore, tenure can protect predatory professors occupying senior positions from facing removal for sexual misconduct. The only suggestion in the report relating to tenure recommends as follows:

Ensure that official records that include discipline for breaching the policy are communicated to the Dean of the Faculty, prior to a decision being made about tenure.

We are doubtful that McGill has the capabilities to deal with these communications appropriately. The use of academic spaces for romantic and sexual pursuit must be understood as a severe form of academic misconduct which interferes with the social and academic welfare of students. Consequently, disciplinary measures cannot merely be communicated– rather, their formal inclusion in tenure dossiers is necessary. Disciplinary measures should include recommendations on rejecting tenure applications, administrative appointments, and other forms of promotion, and these recommendations should be binding.

Complaints that do not result in official disciplinary measures must be taken into account, particularly, if patterns of repeated complaints exist. This is especially true in cases involving established senior professors, who often have the means to intimidate or discourage students who would otherwise file formal complaints. The report does not reflect this stance, despite the fact that students supported it throughout the consultation process . Terms of tenure should not support professors who engage in inappropriate relationships with students.

As students, we began this committee’s proceedings with the hope that our voices would be taken seriously. McGill has historically failed to engage with students on the subject of sexual violence, and as community members with long-standing involvement in equity work on campus we had reason to feel disillusioned. We know, through extensive experience, that this university tends towards ignoring threats to student welfare unless they are pushed by negative publicity. Nonetheless, we participated in meetings, pushed for consultations, organized a town hall, extended a call for submissions, and in many instances, we came up against misogyny, tone-policing, and general condescension. It is unfortunate that despite the committee’s work, McGill has once again chosen to protect those in power.

The report’s recommendations highlight the reality that the committee’s decisions protect staff, and not students.

 

McGill, News

McGill’s history of labour conflict

The McGill Social Work Student Association (SWSA) went on strike Nov. 19-23 to protest mandatory unpaid internships in social work degrees. They joined over 50,000 CEGEP and university students demonstrating across the province. Currently, the degree at McGill requires two field placements, usually unpaid, in years U3 and U4, each consisting of 400 hours of labour in the social work field. 

In comparison, similar internships in engineering or management are often compensated, as private sector organizations often operate for profit and receive Quebec government subsidies to fund interns and trainees. However, social work students’ placements typically take place in the public sector and remain uncompensated. For example, at the Université de Sherbrooke, 20 per cent of women-worked internships are paid while 47 per cent of men-worked internships are paid, pointing toward a trend of male-dominated professions being more likely to receive payment for internship requirements.

“The major issue we face with the McGill administration is the conflict that exists between their desire to preserve the status quo and ours to dismantle it,” Yasmin Weiss, the SWSA communications coordinator, said. “Recognizing and acting upon the overt injustice of unpaid internships has been met with bureaucratic opposition at a time when we require all the support we can get.”

Weiss criticized the administration’s refusal to allow social work professors to cancel classes during strike week. Professors had voted in favour of cancelling class in solidarity with the student protest, but the administration cautioned them of their legal obligation to teach.

“Teaching faculty support the concerns of the students, but we do have a requirement to teach classes, both as part of our legal requirements and with respect to the requirement [to provide instruction],” Nico Trocmé, director of the School of Social Work, said. “Any student who requests class is entitled to have class.”

This is not the first time that McGill students have organized around labour issues on campus. The Association of McGill University Support Employees (AMUSE) has previously gone on strike to protect its non-academic staff and floor fellows.

AMUSE is a McGill labour union that represents casual and temporary employees at the university, including both students and non-students in part-time and full-time positions. Its 1,500 members compose 55 per cent of McGill’s non-academic employees. AMUSE began collectivizing in Fall 2008, focusing on students participating in the work-study program. Non-student workers were eventually included, and, when the group voted in Fall 2009, 85 per cent favoured unionization. The Quebec Labour Board accredited AMUSE in Jan. 2010.

When the collective agreement between AMUSE and the university expired in Apr. 2015, the two parties began renegotiating the terms of employment as well as the rights and obligations of employers and employees, including wages, benefits, and non-monetary privileges. Among other requests, AMUSE pushed for a $15 minimum wage and for work-study positions to be posted publicly. However, McGill failed to implement their demands.

“The university has made it clear that they won’t include the changes that we feel are necessary for our members in the collective agreement,” Claire Michela, former president of AMUSE in 2016, said. “We tried all day to make a change that would suit our needs and be acceptable to the university, and we couldn’t do that, so we had to exercise our strike mandate at the end of the day, unfortunately.”

AMUSE voted to go on strike in Oct. 2016 to pressure McGill into reconsidering their demands. The five-day strike was instrumental in securing the wage increase for casual employees in their second collective agreement, ratified on Jan 30, 2017, although demands for a $15 minimum wage were not met.

Ella Hartsoe, current AMUSE President, blames society’s casualization of labour, the practice of making unionized, higher-paying jobs less protected and less benefitted. At McGill, she is also concerned about previously-unionized positions becoming non-union managerial positions.

“Casual workers who happen to be students are not ‘lucky’ for getting experience through working,” Hartsoe said. “They are working and being paid because it’s their right. Sometimes, jobs aren’t for resumes. Often times, for many working students on campus, jobs are for money, stability, and the autonomy that working brings for individuals who may not come from middle or upper-class backgrounds.”

Although they exist in a separate bargaining unit, floor fellows make up part of AMUSE as a result of a history of conflict with McGill. In 2008, then director of residences Michael Porritt was unwilling to consider the floor fellows’ judgment and opinions when they voiced their concerns over his no-tolerance drugs and alcohol policies. In 2012, two floor fellows were dismissed and then evicted for participating in #6party, a five-day protest occupation of the James Administration Building’s sixth floor in response to the university’s refusal to acknowledge the existence of CKUT Radio.

These events prompted McGill floor fellows to join AMUSE in May 2014, enabling them to negotiate with McGill administration for wage and job security as a part of their collective agreement. The negotiation process took over three years and the administration refused to pay the 75 floor fellows working in residences until July 3, 2017, when the floor fellows signed their first collective agreement with the university. Before then, floor fellows received only room and board. This resulted in increased job insecurity, as their living accomodations directly depend on their employment status. Floor fellows continue to only be compensated for an average work week of 13 hours, although they typically work for longer.

“I don’t want to say that it disincentivizes us to do work, but it’s just frustrating that our work isn’t appreciated by administration,” Stephanie Li, U2 Science, a Douglas Hall floor fellow, said. “They know that even if we’re not paid, we’re still going to be doing check-ins [and] we’re still going to be doing events.”

The McGill community itself relies on unpaid and underpaid workers. Tutoring services, the Sexual Assault Centre of the McGill Students’ Society (SACOMSS), the Peer Support Center, Walksafe, Drivesafe, and Nightline are all student-run services that do not offer even minimum-wage compensation for labour.

“Too much labour on campus is unpaid under the guise of ‘experience,’ but, as the Social Work students have pointed out, you can’t pay your groceries, rent, or tuition with ‘experience,’” Hartsoe said.

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